PBS’s ’Out in America’ offers snapshots of contemporary gay life
As you more than likely know, June is Gay Pride Month - what a better time for a new documentary on what it means to be out in America?
On Wednesday, June 8th, PBS airs "Out in America," Emmy-award winning director Andrew Goldberg's documentary that offers a comprehensive overview of what it is like to be gay in America as we enter the second decade of the new Millennium. But this is a documentary with a divergent approach to its subject. While Goldberg doesn't ignore the struggles and hardships the GLBT community has experienced over the years, his primary goal was to present an uplifting portrait through the words of people who know firsthand what it means to be out and proud.
"Out In America" allows out celebrities such as Bravo's Andy Cohen, Tales of the City writer Armistead Maupin, country singer Chely Wright and humorist Kate Clinton to tell their stories and not hide their sexuality from their personal and professional lives. However, the piece also features more real life people whose stories are just as impactful and powerful. Included in the documentary are two gay men both named Harold who have been together for nearly 50 years, the organizer of the Capital Queer prom, a drag queen, a West Point graduation and former US Army Captain as well Ruthie and Connie, a lovably charismatic lesbian couple that have also been together for decades.
EDGE's Jim Halterman talked with Goldberg and participant Kate Clinton about the film, why it remains important to continue talking about all of our coming out stories, and no longer remaining silent.
Building blocks
EDGE: Watching the documentary I couldn't help but realize we never really get tired of hearing each other's coming out stories and what it means to be out. Why is that?
Kate Clinton: I know that whenever we start talking about our coming out stories my young friends all do that eye rolling thing and say 'Here we go again.'
It's really important, though, because some people think they're out but they're not fully out. You gotta say it! A lot of our coming out stories are saying 'I am a lesbian.' Saying 'I play softball' doesn't cut it.
And it's a part of our history and it's an important part. I believe that it's still one of the building blocks of our movement. It's stunning to me to talk to people who have non-discrimination clauses in their workplace but in fact they're not out and they don't feel comfortable being out. You look at surveys and it's great we have a lot of information there in the LGBT communities but you find that in places like Michigan only 40% of people are out. It's amazing so I think that telling those stories is good modeling behavior.
EDGE: Andrew, your past documentary were "The Armenian Genocide," "Anti-Semitism in the 21st Century" and "Proud to Serve: The Men and Women of the US Army." What drew you to the subject of the LGBT community?
Andrew Goldberg: My argument has always been that if we leave each group or community or class to fight their own battle by themselves they're not going to make as much progress they would than if people were helping them. I think that's one of the great fundamental problems with how human society is built. The Armenians have to fight their own fight, the Jews have to fight their own fight... and as a result each group is left with the rest of the communities looking at them as if they are highly self-centered, over-exaggerating their plight and, as a result, their progress is slowed if not stopped...
I happen to be straight and married but I don't feel like that relieves me of the responsibility of doing good reporting on others. I feel like I have a very small amount of power by making these films but it is an amount of power, a flashlight, so to speak, so why not point it at the spaces that make the most sense? To me, this made a lot of sense.
A positive outlook
EDGE: The documentary is predominantly uplifting and positive. You bring up Stonewall and the days when people had to hide in the backs of bars but you certainly don't dwell on that. Was that a conscious choice?
Andrew Goldberg: That was very intentional. If you want to study bigotry, study bigots not black people. If you want to study homophobia, study homophobes, not gay people. Homophobia has nothing to do with gay people. Homophobia has everything to do with people who create a hatred and a sickness in their brain and point it at someone else... I didn't want to legitimize any of that stuff. I wanted to say 'Hey, check it out! We're a happy couple. We've been together 40 years!'
EDGE: Looking at the closeted people of today, how can they still not be out? Gay people are all over TV and movies but there's still that stigma where people don't feel safe to come out. Have we not come as far as we might think?
Kate Clinton: I think there's that and I think there's the long arm of religion and the people who participate in churches that they love and yet tell them they're an abomination and they take it in. It comes from that safe tradition where openly closeted is acceptable and that's what they do; again, the importance of naming it. I do think it's still really, really hard and when the day comes that the last gay teen comes out and doesn't think of suicide next... I'll think, well, my job here is done but we have a long way to go.
EDGE: One of my favorite moments in the film is seeing 'the Harolds' holding hands as they walk to their house. How did you find these people?
Andrew Goldberg: Each person was chosen because they represented a very specific point of view or had very specific interesting things to say. No matter what you do for a living, if you're any kind of journalist in the world, you can't pass up two men named Harold in their 80s who have been together 45 years who are gay and who sound as adorable as they do! Even if I had no place for them in the film, I simply had to find it! I'm Jewish and I needed the Jewish Grandmother and Ruthie and Connie... my God! It's like central casting, those two! I found Ruthie and Connie through a community group for lesbians and I said I was looking for an older couple who had been together who was articulate and interesting and they said 'You gotta call Ruthie and Connie.' When Chely Wright was interviewed she was very much in the news. Since then, her story is still a fascinating one and she's wonderfully articulate and I think she represents something interesting. The country western world is extremely close-minded to this stuff so that, to me, was pretty interesting.
Optimistic about gay marriage?
EDGE: Talk to me about the first person narrative of the film and the great quotes that pop up on screen throughout. Is that a documentary staple or did you want to make sure there wasn't a major voiceover leading us through?
Andrew Goldberg: The closest thing to a narrator would be the transitions, which sort of gives you a bit of context for what you're about to hear. I think narrators are, by definition, a little bit cheesy and at some level in a show like this, which is specifically first person stories, they should only provide a collective tissue. When we found that the quotes worked so well, especially when the quotes were said by the people themselves, we didn't need it. I don't like writing narratives about... how am I going to say it? There's something counter-intuitive to writing something like that. "One thing we loved was being in love and nobody was going to hold us back!" Can you imagine?
EDGE: Kate, with marriage equality being such a huge issue, do you think we are getting closer to a time where it's no longer an issue?
Kate Clinton: You know, the good thing about the gay marriage is that it is such a point of conversation. It's something that people talk about, they have to talk about gay people and that's a good thing. It is astounding to me how, hello, 2011! Get a grip! We couldn't ruin marriage more than you have! [laughs] In fact, fewer [straight people] are actually getting married. But people are very optimistic of the chances of marriage equality in New York. The time is now.
EDGE: Even though the subject matter is being out In America, I feel like the documentary is very relatable to everyone. Can you talk about that?
Andrew Goldberg: I wanted something where anyone who's not gay could watch and, this is what I think is the most important thing, realize that gay people are so unbelievably human. So many people think they've been clumped into a belief that they're 'other' so when you get to know someone you go 'Oh. Right. Okay. I get it now.' I think the best example of that is Dick Cheney, who was such a conservative guy yet he just sat out the entire anti-gay momentum of the Republican Party that took place during that period. To see him sit that out is a result of nothing other than the fact that he's realized that his daughter is no different from anybody else. The more people get to know people the easier it's become. There's a universal element to this which is that at its very, very, very core the only real issue that I'm concerned with is that one person should have the right to be in love with and love whoever they love. To try to take that away from someone seems so terribly selfish and destructive.
"Out In America" premieres June 8th on PBS. Check your local listings for the airtime in your area. For more information, visit http://www.twocatstv.com/outinamerica/